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Transcript of audio podcast interview by Douglas Eby with Judith Orloff M.D.

Welcome to another Inner Talent Interview, a series of Podcasts on the psychology of creativity and personal growth.

I'm Douglas Eby, author of the Talent Development Resources site.

My guest today is energy psychiatrist Judith Orloff M.D., an assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at UCLA and author of the book "Emotional Freedom."

She synthesizes traditional medicine with intuition, subtle energy, and spirituality and provides in her books strategies to transform strong negative emotions to help achieve inner peace and better access to our creativity.

For more information, see the Podcast page with the interview and links to her site, to my previous interview with her, and to her book.

Now, here's the interview.

Douglas: Well, hello, Doctor Orloff.

Dr. Judith Orloff: Hi, it's nice to talk to you again.

Douglas: Thank you. Your bio on your site says, "You passionately assert that we have the power to transform negative emotions and achieve inner peace."

Psychiatry has usually been about medical experts managing our negative emotions with drugs or therapies. Are you describing a more self-help approach in your book "Emotional Freedom"?

Dr. Orloff: Well I'm a different kind of psychiatrist. What I do is I incorporate traditional medicine with information from intuition, spirituality, subtle energies, and psychology.

I want to provide solutions from every possible realm for people who are experiencing anxiety because I know how potent anxiety can be and how it can just throw you off.

I don't feel traditional psychiatry offers all of the solutions that are available.

Douglas: You've also written, "I've learned that emotional freedom is rarely just about removing a symptom."

Many of us feel an urgency about dealing with anxiety or irritability when it comes up. I, for example, sometimes use an herbal preparation called "Pure Calm" that does provide some quick relief.

Do you include strategies that can have a fairly immediate relief or is this more a long term emotional health approach?

Dr. Orloff: Oh no, that wouldn't work with anxiety! [laughs]

Douglas: [laughs] Right...

Dr. Orloff: You want immediate relief from anxiety.

Douglas: Yeah, really.

Dr. Orloff: You don't want to wait, so I have both immediate methods that you can use and those that you can develop longer term to shift your biology and neurochemicals, because what happens with medication is that that alters your neurochemicals, but I believe that we can do that naturally with our own techniques and our own meditation practices.

But, in addition to that, there are four ways to find calm and cure anxiety that I talk about in "Emotional Freedom, that has to do with supplements and the ones I recommend are 5HTP, which is a plant extract which converts into serotonin and epinephrine that works for certain people; Kava-kava which is taken from the root of the plant that grows in the south pacific and promotes relaxation and improves sleep; and also calcium and magnesium, I believe that's what you were just referring to, the Pure formula I think, and these are essential minerals, they can be depleted by stress, which are calming and improves sleep.

So those are four possible natural supplements to use. And also, to relieve anxiety, you must learn how to quiet your system because the fight or flight response revs it up and so it's important as much as possible to avoid caffeine and other stimulants, excessive sugar, and violent newscasts and films, because these make you jumpy and increase the startle response.

Douglas: Right. Actually the "Pure Calm" I was referring to was put out by Native Remedies and it's a homeopathic preparation.

Dr. Orloff: Oh. Oh I see, OK.

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Read more about these supplements that Dr. Orloff recommends at Anxiety Relief Solutions.

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Douglas: Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned those others as well.

Speaking of getting revved up, which is certainly a problem in a lot of ways in modern society. Many actors get anxious about auditions, about not getting work, et cetera, and you know, have anxiety issues that are really kind of built in, in a way, to the profession. Do you have actor or performer clients that you've helped?

Dr. Orloff: Oh, all the time, my practice is in Los Angeles so a great portion of the list is creative people and actors and directors and so forth, but actors in particular, and then there are a number of options for that.

One is basically the beta blockers or Inderal. It's a medication to reduce stage fright by decreasing the fight or flight response.

All right, that's one way, but a better way is that I teach everyone to do a three minute mini-meditation from emotional freedom where they learn how to breathe, center themselves, let their thoughts flow by, and focus on something really nurturing and positive for three minutes which is a better way, I believe, to learn how to shift your anxiety and really own the moment. You can do that anywhere.

I teach patients with panic attacks this three minute mini meditation. Let's say the panic attack is coming on at a party, they could go to the bathroom, close the door, and do this three minute meditation to bring themselves back together again and then go back out.

It's as important that we learn how to shift the biochemical rush that comes in from anxiety with specific strategies to bring it back down instead of feeding it because then it could snowball and turn into a panic attack, which is what you don't want.

Douglas: Yes. Well, that's that really interesting. It relates to a number of mindfulness approaches I'm sure you're familiar with, but it sounds like you've developed a very quick and efficient version of longer mindfulness meditation techniques.

Dr. Orloff: Oh, yes. You need a quick and efficient version with anxiety. Because when it starts revving up, you want to rev it down. It's like pain, you have to break the pain cycle in order for it to stop. The same with anxiety.

And I also want to make the point that many traditional psychiatrists don't understand that certain people are what I call emotional empaths. It's a type of emotional type I talk about in "Emotional Freedom."

And I am one so I really have a great interest in it. Emotional empaths are so sensitive that they can absorb the negative emotions of others in their body, and actually take it on. So when an empath is around somebody who is anxious, they can actually absorb that energy into their body, when it isn't even their own anxiety.

Dr. Orloff: And they don't know the difference. It's hard to know what's what. And so in "Emotional Freedom" I go through techniques on how to identify this, and how to breathe it out, and other strategies to get rid of somebody else's anxiety.

And you need to know if you're an emotional empath. If you're suffering from anxiety and you're an emotional empath, there are a number of strategies that are not presented by traditional medicine that you can try in order to stop absorbing the energy of others.

I practice these strategies myself so I don't absorb the emotions of others. And if I didn't, I couldn't go out on a book tour. I couldn't be around large groups of people because my body is literally like a sponge.

        >> Continued

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highly sensitive people, empath, high sensitivity and anxiety, anxiety relief programs, anxiety relief products

Absorbing the anxiety of others

Dr. Orloff: My body absorbs energy and that can be extremely agitating. And if you don't know that you're absorbing the anxiety of others, or even the anxiety of the world, everything that's going on, then you can be a lightning rod for anxiety, and it's not even your own.

Douglas: Yes. And that's really a powerful point to make. From what I've read and done interviews with a number of creative people including... well, maybe particularly - actors. A number of them are highly sensitive, if not empathic.

Do you find that with people you work with, that they're particularly susceptible in this way?

Dr. Orloff: Oh, yes. Creative people are extremely sensitive. Their neurologic systems are wired, very finely tuned, and open to all kinds of energies from the outside.

So it's important that they protect their energies and nurture them, and not be overwhelmed.

And learn strategies that center themselves, and not absorb everything around them. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to really create and manifest all their fantastic talent.


Douglas: Yes. I think it was in a summary of your book, that had a statement that you show how to "identify the most powerful negative emotions and transform them into hope, kindness, and courage."

Dr. Orloff: Yes.

Douglas: It's a really hopeful statement. So we've been talking about anxiety, but certainly there are other negative emotions. What struck me was the idea of transforming them. This isn't just about covering up or masking these feelings. Is that right?

Dr. Orloff: Oh, that's exactly right. And this is what I really wanted to get across in my book, that if you experience fear, the idea isn't just to get rid of fear, it's to transform it with courage. You have to have point and counterpoint.

In traditional psychiatry, it's just about getting rid of an uncomfortable emotion, or understanding it rather than transforming it. But because emotions are energy, you need to transform it so that they don't stay stuck in your body and you can become empowered.

And so in the book I talk about transforming fear with courage, or transforming frustration with patience, or transforming anxiety with inner calm, or transforming anger with compassion.

No, it's a point counterpoint. It's a dance. It's a movement. It's not just "get rid of the anxiety and everything's all better."

Douglas: Right. And your book and your work as I understand, is really an outgrowth of what you list as your fondest loves - traditional medicine, intuition, energy, and dreams.

Dr. Orloff: Right.

Douglas: It's really a wonderfully exciting mix of disciplines and knowledge. Are you finding that you're able to bring all of that into your work? Or do you often use one approach, like energy management? I guess what I'm trying to say is, it sounds like you have a very eclectic background. Do you use that background in a full sense when you're working with people?

Dr. Orloff: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

I want to stress that when a person comes in, I tune in with my intuition to find out which approach is most appropriate for them. I don't have a preference. And so I just use whatever will help somebody.

You know, if traditional medicine is indeed what will help someone, then I am more than happy to go in that direction. But if they need something else in addition to that, I'm more than happy to go in that direction.

I intuitively tune in to what's most appropriate for the person. I never force anything on them, or say this is the only way to go. It's a collaboration between me and my patients about what's right for them.

Douglas: Yes. Well, you emphasize intuition in a lot of ways. Is the book about intuition, about using intuition and enhancing it?

Dr. Orloff: Oh, yes. It's about using intuition and helping us to transform negative emotions and tuning into intuition versus fear. That's as important... Intuition is the still small voice inside that will tell us the truth about things.

And often when you're anxious you're out of touch with it. Because the anxiety takes you away from your center.

So it's important to be able to breathe and calm yourself. And get back to that intuition, and listen for how it wants to move you.

"And listen for the goose bumps," as Quincy Jones said in an interview I did with him. Listen for those goose bumps. Don't act out of anxiety. Don't just make a decision because you're so anxious you've got to do something.

You have to stop, pause, and listen for intuition. I'm presenting emotions as the path to spiritual and intuitive awakening. When you begin to transform fear with courage or anger with compassion, it is light bearing. And it creates more light in yourself and the universe.

I see emotions as very sacred, but in order to really get a deep sense of what's going on with them you must get in touch with your body's intuition.

That will help you to shed light on anything that's blocking you from experiencing joy.

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highly sensitive people, empath, high sensitivity and anxiety, anxiety relief programs, anxiety relief products

The value of meditation

Douglas: That reminds me of what a number of people say about the value of meditation, as well. In addition to your three minute approach, as a way to manage anxiety, do you also encourage people to engage in longer meditation practice?

Dr. Orloff: I do if they can tolerate it. But somebody who's experiencing extreme anxiety, it's better to only do three minutes. I tell people to stop then. And if they want to do longer meditations, they can do walking meditations. That's very, very good.

Douglas: Yeah.

Dr. Orloff: As opposed to just forcing yourself to sit there which can be anxiety provoking in and of itself.

Douglas: Yeah.

Dr. Orloff: Or do dance, or movement, or walking in nature. I'm a big believer in going out in nature and having that replenish you. Nature's very calming.

Techno-anxiety

Dr. Orloff: I also recommend not staying by the computer for too many hours, because that can make you very anxious. It creates anxiety, because it's not nurturing your energy.

Douglas: That's very interesting. There are certainly a lot of us who spend many hours a day at a computer for work or other reasons. So, just taking a break from that, regular breaks, maybe, would be helpful.

Dr. Orloff: Taking regular breaks, doing stretching. The body loves that to release anxiety. Stretching, because that stretches the body, and it releases the anxiety in the joints and the tension in the joints - stretching, movement, breathing in fresh air.

There's a phenomena I've noticed called techno-despair, or techno-anxiety that happens as a result of being obsessed with the computer and staying there all the time. It's not good for human emotions to do that without breaks. The key is to take breaks.

Douglas: Yes. We've been talking a lot about anxiety. You cover other strong emotions in your book, Emotional Freedom, do you want to comment about how the book is helpful for other strong feelings, or is it mainly about anxiety?

Dr. Orloff: No, I go through seven different emotions. Anxiety is one of them, a very important one. But also I talk about how to transform anger with compassion, and how to transform jealousy and envy with self-esteem, or how to transform loneliness with connection, how to transform depression with hope. So I really go through the whole list of emotions that we experience.

The book is structured in such a way you don't have to read it from page one to the end. You can go to any chapter that most suits you.

If you're depressed, go to the depression chapter. If you're anxious, go to the anxiety chapter.

If you're afraid, go to the fear chapter.

If you're dealing with emotional vampires, go to the emotional vampire chapter.

Douglas: Very good. The final question is - I'm not sure if this is a quote of yours or somebody summarizing your book but the comment is, "We treated emotional disorders including depression and anxiety as biochemical imbalances requiring medication."

That's certainly been the main orientation of psychiatry, at least to us who are not in the profession. From what you've been saying, that's really a limited view of emotion and the causes of negative emotions.

Dr. Orloff: Yes, that actually is a quote from my introduction to "Emotional Freedom" when I was talking about my traditional biologic training at UCLA when I went through my psychiatric residency. Anxiety and depression were treated as disorders that can be corrected with medication only. That was the primary emphasis.

Douglas: Yes.

Dr. Orloff: Although sometimes medication can be useful - depending on the case, it's so important to use all the other strategies I'm talking about in terms of energetic strategies, meditation, intuitive strategies, all these other things so that you can take charge of your own biology and start regulating that serotonin, and start decreasing that fight or flight response. You don't have to depend on a medication to do that.

However, I want to say for everyone that's taking medication, and that is the right choice for them, that's totally fine and not to get down on yourself.

Sometimes medication is appropriate.

But, in addition, I suggest trying the other techniques I'm talking about in the book, which I think could help you lower medication. I've seen that with my patients a lot of times.

Most important is to practice self compassion, whatever path you're taking for your anxiety or depression, or other emotions. There is no one way to do it. It's only the one way that is best for you. That's where intuition comes in. I always stress that as a psychiatrist.

And never compare yourself with another person in terms of, 'this friend is getting better from his or her anxiety, by doing this, but it's not working for me.'

Douglas: Yeah. Right.

Dr. Orloff: And that's it. Yeah, it's not working for you, and that's the most important thing. You must find what works for you and don't go by what works for other people because you're an individual.

Douglas: Well, that's an excellent thought to leave on. Thank you very much. I wish you the best with the book. I'm sure it will be really helpful to many people.

Dr. Orloff: Thank you. I also wanted to mention I have free videos on how to stop absorbing other people's emotions and emotional vampires on my website, drjudithorloff.com or on YouTube, which is www.YouTube.com/judithorloffmd.

Douglas: Very good. An additional resource for people.

Dr. Orloff: Yes, and they are free.

Douglas: Well thank you again, Dr. Orloff.

Dr. Orloff: You're very welcome.

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To listen to the podcast, go to Judith Orloff, MD on Emotional Freedom.